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Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:34 am
by stoltenberg
Some people will probably roll their eyes when I arrive with this long read, but on the other hand, I have the impression that this community has a high level of social competence and helpfulness :-)
I am currently faced with the decision of whether to migrate my project towards livecode. My app is a kind of minimal CRM for small offices, it is mainly an address book that is linked to corresponding tasks, invoices, projects, letters and articles. If you want to know details, you can find more informations and screenshots via "alfonsapp" (unfortunately in German only).
To date i have developed with FileMaker only, but lately with the killing of the runtime distribution and the pricing politics, i have to find something else.
I would just be interested in your experiences. I am "supporting" LC since some years with an Indy License, but did'nt find the time to really work with it. Also comments like "is feasible but you should consider XY" or "Better open a café" would be helpful :-)
Of course i'm aware of building something new from scratch. My most important topics/fears are:
- Multilingual UI
- Intensive use of relational DB
- Printing (Invoices, Letters, Reports …)
- Easy installation and updates for the users (Runtime hardening, including the DB …)
I already thank you for your time!
Jan
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:01 pm
by bangkok
stoltenberg wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:34 am
To date i have developed with FileMaker only, but lately with the killing of the runtime distribution and the pricing politics, i have to find something else.
I'd say : go for it.
You perfectly describe the insanity of FM model : pay, pay, repay and pay again. And pay more (for the next version).
Enough.
At one point, like the song : "Frankie says no more".
LC can do everything FM can do, and much, much more.
I know : I was a FM guy before. Exactly like you !
stoltenberg wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:34 am
- Multilingual UI
No problem, once you've got the "tricks".
stoltenberg wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:34 am
- Intensive use of relational DB
Piece of cake of one simple reason : no link whatsoever... with LC
It's pure SQL. MySQL, PostGresql or SQLite.
LC talks to them,perfectly well. The magic is not in LC, but in SQL. You have to learn.
stoltenberg wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:34 am
- Printing (Invoices, Letters, Reports …)
From my point of view: that's the tricky part. To be honest : i dont like it. But i manage to make it work.
stoltenberg wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:34 am
- Easy installation and updates for the users (Runtime hardening, including the DB …)
Again.... no link with LC. Once you have your EXE, many tools exists to "install" it. Free or for a fee.
Regarding auto update ? With a few tricks, easy to do.
Take the leap. And tell FM to go to hell.
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:11 pm
by stoltenberg
Wow, that was quick and extremely informative. I can see that I'm not alone. FileMaker has long annoyed their very loyal users,
but the runtime-decision will now jeopardize one or the other business model and existence - the FileMaker forum is full of it.
Your answer is not only very helpful, but also motivating for me. I don't know if I can close all the gaps in knowledge, but in any case
I really want to get to know SQl better. Last but not least, this knowledge can also be used again and again outside of LC, too.
A thousand thanks, you gives me courage
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:17 pm
by jmburnod
Hi Jan,
Multilingual UI
Here is a little stack with a way to translate text dialogs.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19283&hilit=translat#p168491
Best regards
Jean-Marc
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:26 pm
by dunbarx
Hi.
You will have a learning curve to get running with LC. Use this forum often as you proceed.
Craig
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:03 pm
by ghettocottage
If you have a VPS or local office-server to use as a web/mysql/livecode server, there are some things you can do that will solve much of your requirements:
##Updates
This is a big one that LC can do in conjunction with using a server, and I am surprised it is not discussed more.
Basically, you can divide your app into two parts: A launcher, and the actual app which will reside on your server as a stack.
you distribute your Launcher to everyone. If you need passwords and such, that can be handled by the launcher which can then check against the server (via a database or some pre-configured script on the server)
Once the person has opened the Launcher (and put in their login info if that is what you need) then the Launcher opens the stack from the server. That stack loads into the memory of the machine they are using, so they are not actually modifying the stack on the server in any way.
By using this method, all you have to do for updates is replace the single stack on the server. When people open their Launcher, whatever version of your stack you have on the server will be what they get. You can update it every day if you need to. The people using the Launcher will always get the most recent version.
Richard Gaskin ( @FourthWorld ) guided me on how to do that. It is, to be honest, such a great feature that I cannot imagine having to use Filemaker ever again with its complicated (and very expensive) server relationship.
I have an example stack I have been working on for the last few months that I keep meaning to post on this forum, since it is a topic that comes up often enough. I will try and work on it enough to demonstrate the updating feature.
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:21 am
by bangkok
ghettocottage wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:03 pm
Once the person has opened the Launcher (and put in their login info if that is what you need) then the Launcher opens the stack from the server. That stack loads into the memory of the machine they are using, so they are not actually modifying the stack on the server in any way.
I like this idea. But in some cases could be a problem (large stack, internet problems).
Personally, I use the launcher method.... but with a local file.
It's only when there is an update available (I use a MySQL table for that, in which I store a simple version number that will be compared to the version number in the stack on the user's PC), that the launcher will fetch the updated stack (from a FTP server, on the local network) and then write it into the directory, on the user's PC.
Rince, repeat.
Very efficient.
Only one big regret : impossible to do that... on Android !
That sucks a lot. Each time the user has to desinstall and reinstall the new apk file... Boring.
If LC could work on this, it would be great.
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:38 am
by ghettocottage
bangkok wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:21 am
I like this idea. But in some cases could be a problem (large stack, internet problems).
Personally, I use the launcher method.... but with a local file.
It's only when there is an update available (I use a MySQL table for that, in which I store a simple version number that will be compared to the version number in the stack on the user's PC), that the launcher will fetch the updated stack (from a FTP server, on the local network) and then write it into the directory, on the user's PC.
...
Interesting. I am curious why would you not just store it on the FTP Server since it is a local network? Is your stack really that large?
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:33 am
by bangkok
ghettocottage wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:38 am
Interesting. I am curious why would you not just store it on the FTP Server since it is a local network? Is your stack really that large?
To save ressources.
It's my "old style" i guess.
If there is not update to be made... then why use the network ?
If the file is stored locally, the user can open then close the app ad nauseam. No bandwidth used.
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:34 am
by stoltenberg
Bon jour Jean-Marc
and thanks a lot! This is exactly what i was looking for.
Best regards
Jan
jmburnod wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:17 pm
Hi Jan,
Here is a little stack with a way to translate text dialogs.
Best regards
Jean-Marc
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:36 am
by stoltenberg
Hi Craig.
I see – the forum is very helpful right now
Best regards
Jan
dunbarx wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:26 pm
You will have a learning curve to get running with LC. Use this forum often as you proceed.
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:48 am
by stoltenberg
Hi ghettocottage
and thanks a lot. I would like to keep the app independent/»offline« for different reasons, but the model is very interesting.
I've tried similar scenarios with FileMaker, but with the runtimes and the hardening process for the delivery to macos 10.14 and 10.15
there was no way. But i can see, that LC is just allowing more ways than FM and i will figure one out :-)
Best regards
Jan
ghettocottage wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:03 pm
##Updates
This is a big one that LC can do in conjunction with using a server, and I am surprised it is not discussed more.
Basically, you can divide your app into two parts: A launcher, and the actual app which will reside on your server as a stack.
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:08 pm
by AxWald
Hi,
bangkok wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:21 am
Personally, I use the launcher method.... but with a local file.
It's only when there is an update available [...], that the launcher will fetch the updated stack (from a FTP server [...]) and then write it into the directory, on the user's PC.
That's what I do, too. I fetch the stack files ("modules" in my speak) from an FTP, in case there's a new version. I just don't use a local one. My "modules" typically have a specialized job & don't ever contain any data, so they're only 10 - 400kb.
Directly "open stack" from a remote location gave me problems sometimes, so I prefer to download 'em & open locally. Saves a few MB of bandwidth anyways ;-)
bangkok wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:21 am
Only one big regret : impossible to do that... on Android !
That sucks a lot. Each time the user has to desinstall and reinstall the new apk file... Boring.
Ooops? I just save them to the documents dir ("/data/data/[identifier]/files/" on Android 6) & don't need to reload 'em - this one is permanent for this apk.
Just double checked - the "modules.rev" that my apps depend of are definitively not in the APK!
Have fun!
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:43 pm
by bangkok
AxWald wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:08 pm
Ooops? I just save them to the documents dir ("/data/data/[identifier]/files/" on Android 6) & don't need to reload 'em - this one is permanent for this apk.
Just double checked - the "modules.rev" that my apps depend of are definitively not in the APK!
What what ?
Thank you to give me details please.
You have a "launcher" method on Android ?
An APK that will download a stack ? And then open it ?????
Re: Moving a CRM project from FileMaker to LC?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:05 pm
by AxWald
Hi,
just stepped through, this should it be:
Code: Select all
put URL "ftp://[...]/myStack.rev" into myFile
...
put specialfolderpath("documents") & "/myStack.rev" into theTarget
...
put myFile into URL ("binfile:" & theTarget)
...
go stack (theTarget) in new window
This is distributed over quite some handlers (and some parts are simplified), but it's the part that fetches & starts the stack. There's stacks that get "start using stack ...", too. It runs equally on mobile, development & standalone.
Have fun!