Resizing script editor variable pallets

[mcelvain]

Script editor is impressive !

Clicking on declared variables in bottom table yields pallet with updating values; brilliant !

… now, if I could only see them.

[ was young, once ]

I must be missing a “Preference” dialog option somewhere.

??

[dunbarx]

Hi.

Is it possible that you are trying to view variables without being in an active debugger? By "active" I mean with execution halted. Variables, even already loaded global ones, will not appear in the variables pane unless one is in active debugging.

Or is that not what you meant?

Craig

[jacque]

I think the OP wants to resize the text. I have the same problem. You can resize the the text in the editor field but not in the variable pane or its palettes. I solved the problem by squinting but it's probably worth a feature request.

[mcelvain]

“Active” debugging mode, Craig.

Developing my “squinting” muscles, Jacqueline.

Thank-you, all !

How does one make a “feature request?”

[ getting old is only for the young ]

[dunbarx]

How does one make a “feature request?”

Simple:

Go to https://quality.livecode.com

Not so simple. My most wanted feature in the SE is a horizontal dividing line, similar to what Excel has, where I can create two independently scrollable "partitions". That way I can "keep" one section in place while I ramble around another. I find that when distant and disparate sections of a long script are related, I would love to refer to one while I screw up another.

Craig

[stam]

The way to provide all these features is to provide full integration with a 3rd party script editor like Visual Studio Code, Sublime or some such.
You can split horizontally or vertically and have a whole host of other features with much higher performance than built in SE. Simple things like code folding, selecting a handler or variable and seeing all other instances of these highlighted in script etc. Also being able to do proper debugging of SQL/SQLite - you can actually load a full SQLite DB directly in VS Code, view its data and design queries etc. It really is an amazing piece of software. And, as opposed to Sublime, it's completely free.

You can actually use this for LC right now along with syntax colouring, linting/syntax checking etc using FerrusLogic's free plugin - I use VS Code regularly and am a great fan.

But because there is no full integration, you can't debug code in it, which is a major disadvantage. Another annoyance is that if saving code in VS Code, you have to reload it in LC (there are workarounds but cumbersome).

Arguably this type of integration really should be considered for future versions...

having said that I just realised that me stating this in the forums won't achieve anything, so I've submitted an Enhancement Request here: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24223

S.

[bobcole]

My most wanted feature in the SE is a horizontal dividing line, similar to what Excel has, where I can create two independently scrollable "partitions".

If I remember correctly, there was a time when the script editor had two resizable windows so you could watch the beginning and end of a long script. Correct me if I am wrong.
If I am thinking clearly, what happened to that feature?
Bob

[FourthWorld]

But because there is no full integration, you can't debug code in it, which is a major disadvantage.

The best editor is rarely the best debugger.

In the olden days even LC (then Revolution) provided two different tools for those different tasks. We've conflated the two for so long we've forgotten where we came from, and stopped seeing other tools as they are.

If LC returned to its roots and industry convention to separate the two different tasks with different UIs, each finds opportunities for being best without the design constraints and dev/maintenance overhead of needing to do two jobs.

Here's an example of a dedicated debugger, small, focused and self-contained enough to even be usable in a standalone:
http://fourthworld.net/lc/libROSD.rev

[stam]

Perhaps I miss-spoke. The debugging itself doesn’t need to be external - it’s the code editor that can be improved on. As it stands these are tightly bound together in the IDE but as you say, they don’t need to be. As one of my formative bosses use to say before he retired: always use the right tool for the job!

VS Code continues to impress me and I would really like to be able to at least save code in VSC and have it automatically update in LC. This doesn’t happen at present, it needs too be manually re-loaded after being saved externally - I’m referring to ScriptOnly stacks here. And unless you make a major effort for some kind of automation, you can’t edit object scripts externally. If this were possible then debugging in the IDE would be fine…

I wonder how much effort this would really need, or more accurately, how this fits in with the vision for the new IDE/Xavvi…

[FourthWorld]

Perhaps I miss-spoke. The debugging itself doesn’t need to be external - it’s the code editor that can be improved on.

Agreed. LC would do well to ship with a reasonably decent script editor by default, but put no further effort into it beyond maintenance. Instead, take advantage of the universe of well-funded teams focusing specifically on code editors, and make bridging to them easy and productive.

My understanding is that many on the team use an external editor. Mark Waddingham himself expressed an appreciation for VS Code, which I prefer myself. There's already an LC package for it. Integration with the IDE to make it more seamless is the last remaining step.

FWIW, the origin of LC, MetaCard, had "Use External Editor..." as a menu item build right into its modest IDE. The idea was there from the very beginning.

[mcelvain]

The one change I’d like to make is either a single number — text size for variable palettes (or whatever they’re called) or function that adds/subtracts user-defined value to all text sizes.

Now, for comparison, “Blender” — my current addiction — is still open-sourced.

Gotta know a little “Python,” but, that’s O.K.

I only need a little.

[FourthWorld]

The one change I’d like to make is either a single number — text size for variable palettes (or whatever they’re called) or function that adds/subtracts user-defined value to all text sizes.

Traditionally, this family of languages has included scriptTextFont and scriptTextSize as a solution for easily managing the display of script-related text - more here:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.p ... 97#p223443

[bn]

Script editor is impressive !
Clicking on declared variables in bottom table yields pallet with updating values; brilliant !
… now, if I could only see them.
[ was young, once ]
I must be missing a “Preference” dialog option somewhere.

Have a look at

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.p ... 97#p223438

There is a stack attached that lets you increase the textSize of "pallet with updating values"

Kind regards
Bernd

[stam]

Here's an example of a dedicated debugger, small, focused and self-contained enough to even be usable in a standalone:
http://fourthworld.net/lc/libROSD.rev

Richard - can I just say that libROSD is actually really quite impressive!
Minor niggle - Ken's variable watcher doesn't always update, eg when running a counter in a loop - to get the up-to-date values you have to untick 'variable watcher' and re-tick it.

It should be doable to address this and also add syntax colouring - at least when using in the IDE. I might have a go at that when I have the time.

But wowzers - what a cool stack!
Really does weaken the argument for having an integrated script editor + variable watcher/debugger all rolled into one... Kudos!

[FourthWorld]

Here's an example of a dedicated debugger, small, focused and self-contained enough to even be usable in a standalone:
http://fourthworld.net/lc/libROSD.rev

Richard - can I just say that libROSD is actually really quite impressive!

Thank you very much for your enthusiastic kindness. Prompts me to consider posting more of the stuff I have lying around here from two decades of consulting with this engine. It's been an amazing journey seeing so many different kinds of projects, and the tooling useful for bringing them to life.

Minor niggle - Ken's variable watcher doesn't always update, eg when running a counter in a loop - to get the up-to-date values you have to untick 'variable watcher' and re-tick it.

Yes, it would be nice to have that, and I appreciate your raising the issue. I've added it to my to-do list, but to be honest I don't know when I'll be in a position to address it.

I enjoy my work as a consulting developer with a rare amount of experience in xTalks, but in recent years the number of new substantial works created with LC has been in roughly inverse proportion to the marketing focus on LCFM. Coupled with the company site now emphasizing their own consulting options, a smaller ecosystem with fewer referrals requires me to spend more time with other systems.

This Google Trends profile more or less reflects the priorities most readily available to my business at the moment:

That said I do enjoy LC of course, and have some product plans that keep me in the fold. I maintain a to-do list for the tools I share (and a few new ones that come up as my work needs them), and have added your good request there for when time permits.

It should be doable to address this and also add syntax colouring - at least when using in the IDE. I might have a go at that when I have the time.

In the olden days colorization was done in script, and as one would expect prohibitively slow. There's now an accessible (though undocumented) routine for this in the engine, discoverable in how the IDE handles it. When I get back to that tool I can incorporate that efficiently now.

But wowzers - what a cool stack!
Really does weaken the argument for having an integrated script editor + variable watcher/debugger all rolled into one... Kudos!

I'm a big fan of separation of concerns.